How is this backlashing on Wagner. Is he wrong? I don't think so, in fact, he is the only who is showing some life and by the way consistency , considering he hasn't given up an earned run yet.
This team has no heart, they let the Nationals not only celebrate like little girls in their home building but then proceeded to be undressed in two of the next three.
Where was Beltran, apparently not staying around long enough to answer for being so far off the base with one out that Aaron Boone of all people can through him out.
This team needs fire and spark it has none, if everyone wants to polarize Wagner for saying something great, if its a mean to an end. But if the rest of that team is going to walk around like nothing is wrong here then we might as well pack it in right now. There have been rumors of clubhouse turmoil for two seasons now, and a hint of adouble standard as far as some "Omar Minaya's guys" being able to supercede Randolph and go right to him over some issues. It may be all bullshit but the more I see this go on I find it hard to deny so Billy, go ahead and say what you feel and the rest of you can shut the fuck up!
Billy Wagner is the closer. He pitches one inning a game, every other game, and only if his team is winning by three runs or less in the ninth inning. The man actually bitches if he's used before the ninth inning or in a non-save situation.
So far this year, he's publicly called out at least two teammates and threatened to bean a COLLEGE PLAYER for attempting to bunt. It's still only mid-May, so God only knows what the reason has in store. Last year he publicly called out Jose Reyes and showed up his manager. He was one of the driving forces for getting Lastings Milledge traded, for apparently not being deferential enough to the veteran leadership that you rightly bash for showing no heart.
So yeah, Billy Wagner needs to just shut the fuck up and continue to succeed in the niche role he carved out for himself.
You're missing the point. I want him to get louder and louder maybe someone in that locker room will have the balls to tell him to shut the fuck up, but until then he can talk as much as he wants. At least I know he's pissed off, no else seems to care.
You of all people, who have railed against Randolph's stoicism, I would think you would be praising Jesus for some sort of outburst to come fromthat locker room, instead you are accepting status quo.
I hear what you're saying, but Wagner's self-righteousness turns me off. He points fingers. It's fine to be pissed off and I can even accept it when you he addresses the team's malaise as a collective, but I can't stand it when he calls out individuals like he's a big tough guy.
And listen, we're all a little off the deep end here. It's stupid to think these guys simply aren't trying or simply do not care. We're making assumptions because no one's tipping water coolers or throwing helmets. That type of behavior does nothing to win ballgames.
There's a clear problem here, and it's not lack of heart or lack of desire. It's lack of talent. Oliver Perez can be inconsistent and when he's bad, he's really bad. Aaron Heilman's confidence is shot and that affects his performance. Delgado's bat is too slow because his skills have eroded. Castillo has no power because of the knee injury from last season.
All of them are TRYING, they just aren't SUCCEEDING. The blame goes to a manager who misuses his players and a general manager who brings in the wrong players. Billy Wagner can throw his teammates under buses all he wants; he just comes off looking like a bigger and more clueless prick each time.
It doesn't change the fact that the architects of this disaster are Omar Minaya and Willie Randolph.
You're making assumptions that they are trying. They're problem is heart and desire. The Nationals made a mockery of them on Monday night and we went on to lose 2 of the next three. Any team with heart and desire would have buried those chumps and you know it.
You're making assumptions that they're not trying. These guys have played competitive baseball all their life and have presumably played their best at every stop. Now, all of a sudden, these 25 players ... excuse me, 24 players not including Billy Wagner, the epitome of heart and desire - have collectively decided to jake it and collect a paycheck?
It's ridiculous to assume that they aren't trying. They simply are not succeeding.
You said that already, I was using your argument against you. You can't tell me what's going on in that locker room as much as I can't tell you. Don't say I'm assuming something when you are doing the same. I don't think it's "stupid" to think that players mail it in. It happens more often than you think. Get out of your fantasy world, I know you want to believe they are trying, so do I , but fuck the water coolers, that's not what this is about. Its about being accountable, you want to blame Randolph, well why does protect Beltran but sell out Ollie. And for that matter he can take the blame for Beltran all he wants, Carlos is a big boy and if he's played in as many games as your saying than he knows with a chance to get in on a Sca fly why would you break for home, cause Willie says so? Poppycock. Get your fucking head out of fantasy land, this is big boy school and sometimes big boys act like babies
It's more likely than not that the players are, in fact, trying to succeed and simply failing to do so. It is less likely that, six weeks into the 2008 season, the entire team has decided they'd rather deal with the vitriol of the hometown fans and the tough-guy cattle prodding of Billy Wagner than to try a little harder. My assumptions are based on logic; your assumptions are based on the belief that something is true because you want it to be true.
You can dismiss my point all you want, you can even insult my intellignece and the intelligence of your readers, but it doesn't make my point any less valid or for that matter correct.
Jersey City, Raucous, middle name John...et al...my track record speaks for itself.
12 comments:
How is this backlashing on Wagner. Is he wrong? I don't think so, in fact, he is the only who is showing some life and by the way consistency , considering he hasn't given up an earned run yet.
This team has no heart, they let the Nationals not only celebrate like little girls in their home building but then proceeded to be undressed in two of the next three.
Where was Beltran, apparently not staying around long enough to answer for being so far off the base with one out that Aaron Boone of all people can through him out.
This team needs fire and spark it has none, if everyone wants to polarize Wagner for saying something great, if its a mean to an end. But if the rest of that team is going to walk around like nothing is wrong here then we might as well pack it in right now. There have been rumors of clubhouse turmoil for two seasons now, and a hint of adouble standard as far as some "Omar Minaya's guys" being able to supercede Randolph and go right to him over some issues. It may be all bullshit but the more I see this go on I find it hard to deny so Billy, go ahead and say what you feel and the rest of you can shut the fuck up!
Billy Wagner is the closer. He pitches one inning a game, every other game, and only if his team is winning by three runs or less in the ninth inning. The man actually bitches if he's used before the ninth inning or in a non-save situation.
So far this year, he's publicly called out at least two teammates and threatened to bean a COLLEGE PLAYER for attempting to bunt. It's still only mid-May, so God only knows what the reason has in store. Last year he publicly called out Jose Reyes and showed up his manager. He was one of the driving forces for getting Lastings Milledge traded, for apparently not being deferential enough to the veteran leadership that you rightly bash for showing no heart.
So yeah, Billy Wagner needs to just shut the fuck up and continue to succeed in the niche role he carved out for himself.
You're missing the point. I want him to get louder and louder maybe someone in that locker room will have the balls to tell him to shut the fuck up, but until then he can talk as much as he wants. At least I know he's pissed off, no else seems to care.
You of all people, who have railed against Randolph's stoicism, I would think you would be praising Jesus for some sort of outburst to come fromthat locker room, instead you are accepting status quo.
I hear what you're saying, but Wagner's self-righteousness turns me off. He points fingers. It's fine to be pissed off and I can even accept it when you he addresses the team's malaise as a collective, but I can't stand it when he calls out individuals like he's a big tough guy.
And listen, we're all a little off the deep end here. It's stupid to think these guys simply aren't trying or simply do not care. We're making assumptions because no one's tipping water coolers or throwing helmets. That type of behavior does nothing to win ballgames.
There's a clear problem here, and it's not lack of heart or lack of desire. It's lack of talent. Oliver Perez can be inconsistent and when he's bad, he's really bad. Aaron Heilman's confidence is shot and that affects his performance. Delgado's bat is too slow because his skills have eroded. Castillo has no power because of the knee injury from last season.
All of them are TRYING, they just aren't SUCCEEDING. The blame goes to a manager who misuses his players and a general manager who brings in the wrong players. Billy Wagner can throw his teammates under buses all he wants; he just comes off looking like a bigger and more clueless prick each time.
It doesn't change the fact that the architects of this disaster are Omar Minaya and Willie Randolph.
You're making assumptions that they are trying. They're problem is heart and desire. The Nationals made a mockery of them on Monday night and we went on to lose 2 of the next three. Any team with heart and desire would have buried those chumps and you know it.
"losing is a disease, like syphallus..."
You're making assumptions that they're not trying. These guys have played competitive baseball all their life and have presumably played their best at every stop. Now, all of a sudden, these 25 players ... excuse me, 24 players not including Billy Wagner, the epitome of heart and desire - have collectively decided to jake it and collect a paycheck?
It's ridiculous to assume that they aren't trying. They simply are not succeeding.
You said that already, I was using your argument against you. You can't tell me what's going on in that locker room as much as I can't tell you. Don't say I'm assuming something when you are doing the same. I don't think it's "stupid" to think that players mail it in. It happens more often than you think. Get out of your fantasy world, I know you want to believe they are trying, so do I , but fuck the water coolers, that's not what this is about. Its about being accountable, you want to blame Randolph, well why does protect Beltran but sell out Ollie. And for that matter he can take the blame for Beltran all he wants, Carlos is a big boy and if he's played in as many games as your saying than he knows with a chance to get in on a Sca fly why would you break for home, cause Willie says so? Poppycock. Get your fucking head out of fantasy land, this is big boy school and sometimes big boys act like babies
Sound and fury, signifying nothing.
It's more likely than not that the players are, in fact, trying to succeed and simply failing to do so. It is less likely that, six weeks into the 2008 season, the entire team has decided they'd rather deal with the vitriol of the hometown fans and the tough-guy cattle prodding of Billy Wagner than to try a little harder. My assumptions are based on logic; your assumptions are based on the belief that something is true because you want it to be true.
You can dismiss my point all you want, you can even insult my intellignece and the intelligence of your readers, but it doesn't make my point any less valid or for that matter correct.
Jersey City, Raucous, middle name John...et al...my track record speaks for itself.
I still think your middle name is John.
It is you moron! You think it's Christopher, remember? See, I'm even right about that!
Goddammit.
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